Gene Chip Tatum interview with Ted Gunderson

Transcript https://youtu.be/GeUZE0Exd90

Chip Tatum – Black Ops Interview with Ted Gunderson

[Music][Music][Music]it doesn’t matter he tapes over my voice with what he wants anyhow I identifiedmyself on the first dildo over me andgood day I’m Ted Gunderson I have a radio talk show out of the AmericaFlorida 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. a Pacific Time Monday through Friday and lastsummer the summer of 1997 I invited chip Tatum to come on my show for a two-hourinterview well ladies and gentlemen that interview ended up 26 hours and I hadhim back recently for another interview another 20-some hour plus interview thisman is full of all kinds of information and before I leave you and introduce youto chip let me just mention that my radio show can be heard on galaxy onetransponder seventeen five point five eight frequency wideband audio satelliteso today I have with me chip Tatum this man is unbelievable 25 years CIA blackops operator chip welcome to a video which you and I are going to distributetell the world about what went on behind the scenes in your black op operationthanks Ted greats to be great to be great to be here Jim never could speakEnglish too well now this guy is very intelligent and a good man great American I’m very proud to be apart of his least spreading the information out to help chip any waythat I can and we have some books we’re going to talk about later on the Tatum chronicles and Nixon’s darkest secret Ithink is yes mixes darkness seeker which we will discuss but before before we go into the books chip how did you becomeinvolved in working for the CIA and Iguess we have to go back to your your army training and Special Forces and so forth right sure I flunked the chemistryexam in the early 70s and ended up being drafted receiving my draft notice inlieu of going into the army or another service I didn’t really want to go to Vietnam so I joined the Air Force I waspromised that I could be an air traffic controller under their project guaranteethey did make me an air traffic controller but they made me a little bit different type of air traffic controllerthey sent me to army jump school and Special Forces training and I became a combat controller during my first tourin Vietnam I was on a classified mission and having completed the mission we werecaptured I spent time in captivity and when I came out of captivity captivitywe were debriefed by the CIA station chief out of Saigon bill Colby from thattime in 1971 until 1992 I was one of theboys okay now chip you joined the Air Force so you could be a traffic controllerright air traffic controller and you were told that you wouldn’t have to worry about being on the frontlines right that’s right even if I did go toVietnam I would be an air condition control tower hundreds of miles from the enemy and so one of the jokes he havefor us today I’d still like to find that tech sergeant recruiter he probably went underground if you knew as much aboutyou as I do he probably is disappeared maybe even uh okay chip so you’re you’reover you had like over a hundred jumps behind the enemy lines right and this was before you became involved in CIAoperations there before but during during so after your capture you weregrabbed by the CIA and and and they liked you know what you’ve done of course now what was why were youcaptured and what were their what led up to that was this operation Red Rock thiswas operation okay then let’s go back before that okay and tell us about Operation Red Rock when did you firsthave an inkling that you’d be involved in this operation or excuse meinstrument operation Red Rock is a coal right that’s the code name for the for the particular mission and they alwayshave code names right or numbers sometimes they have numbers right okay so when did you first have an inklingthat you were going to be involved in this operation I had just jumped in parachuted into inKP Thailand the base that I was TDY to and when I landed on the pad at themedevac pad at the hospital a chopperwas inbound and when the chopper landed Special Forces captain and some otherpeople got off one of the patients one of his men was on a stretcher thecaptain went in and the current the colonel who ran the base was there to meet me they were it was an awardceremony when they were going in he said something to the colonel and they allturned around and looked at me and I knew I was in trouble then and what happened after that the followingmorning at 3 a.m. I was called into the Colonel’s office let me tell you folks I was a little airman you know just madebuck sergeant and I’d rarely had contact with a colonel in my life one time and that that’s for disciplinary purposes inOklahoma City and how are you then 19 years old just a kid just just the kidsso when they told me I was the report to the colonel I knew I was dead I don’t know I’m not yeah I’d done somethingwrong and I was gonna get a fixing to get it but chip had you had Special Forces training at that point yeah I hadspent almost a year in Special Forces training across the United States see survival school powa jungle trainingthe works and what did the colonel say to you when you walked into his office he told me that I was there to join amission a team as joint task force that’s been put together for a classified mission and I he gave me theopportunity to talk and let him know how I felt about it and he said how do you feel about this sergeant aid him I saidwell you know sir I’m new in country I really don’t other than schooling don’thave the experience as someone you need this I think you ought to get someone else you said I didn’t ask you what youthink I just gave you the opportunity to accept it before I told you you’re going anyhow okay so you volunteered in otherwords he volunteered Yeah right okay and what happened next did you go into training with these people then good what the other wentcrew members went and packed up my gear was on the chopper out of there withinan hour and where did you fly to and when did you arrive therewe flew about 20 kilometers outside of in KP – outside of a small village wherewe’d set up a training camp for Team Red Rock the person that I was replacing was their combo man he had done a jump hadbroken his leg and I was jumped qualified I was Special Forces qualifiedand this was in Vietnam at the time in Thailand okay and tell us about yourtraining it was a short two-week training reallyfamiliarity with one another because we actually didn’t get the mission parameters in until three days prior tothe to the operation we were primarily set in set in place and worked in the inthe community seeking out Viet Cong along the border of Laos so that wecould get some tactical training we also were working in trying to develop tandemjump techniques because our part of the mission and we didn’t understand why we had to learn tandem jumping that’sparachuting with two people and until the actual mission brief but we weretrying to work out tandem jump techniques and how many people are in training with you at that point all 13just just the 13 team members then we brought in for each team member there was a North Vietnamese sapper that wasbrought in to train with us they were our prisoners American prisoner of waris that we had captured in battle and these were the ones that were going to jump with you these were the ones thatwe weren’t sure why we were jumping with them and working with them all we knew is that these were the men that we weregoing to be doing something with did you know any of these other crew members before this no like I say I was the onlyAir Force member of the Air Force and I just been in the Air Force for a year so no no one and did they know each otherno and normally that’s done for compartmentalization especially when you’re talking about a highly classified mission the worst thing you can have isa group of good old boys and there’s a reason for that you know in SpecialOperations you can’t have the influence of a friendship it can clutter your mind and keep youfrom doing the mechanical operation because conceivably you could be askedto kill the one of your fellow associates or fellow soldiers – right they may know certain circumstances theycome to you and tell you that he’s a spy in the group and he needs to be takenout and if you’re his friend you’re going to be probably more apt not to doit than if you just didn’t know him and did you know the last names of these individuals no we all had code namesmind although they called me bulldog in country the actual code name I was given while I was there was highway why anyparticular reason for highway our captain team commander would always explain to us it’s my way or the highwayand he tell the team that well I was willing to take the highway I wanted to leave especially after I saw the kind ofthings they did those guys were crazy for example so I took the highwayhighway well at one point they they were seeing how high the helicopter could goand jump without a parachute without getting hurt you know just for fun I mean you know this was an any countryactivity and they had a contest every year where they would take and they just jump out of the helicopters as it wasexiting they well there were a few guys broke their legs on that one weren’t they you bet that’s how ready the guy I replaced broke his leg why would they goby the way well I went high and I was dizzy for about two hourswhy were you when you jumped I think it was about 3540 Oh Iceland yeah I’m not arole in didn’t you uh role I didn’t even know I was I thought I was stepping out of the aircraft onto the ground but he’dtaken off already I thought he was just hover hovering you know so much for surprises I’m sure okay so you saw thesecrazy guys training and you said hey you know I wish I’d taken that assignment back hundred miles behind the enemy lines in the era thing at the airport isair traffic controller didn’t work out too well so what happened after that chip the we were called back into taskforce alpha that was the intelligence entity they that’s where all of the intelligence was gathered for himselfthe South Vietnam theory of operationsintegrated and then passed out so anything that comes out of test for self alpha has to be the correct informationeveryone accepts that as being authentic in on on target for in for ourintelligence we were called back to Task Force alpha we met for our actualmission briefing when we went went to sit the colonel called the room to attention and in walk to general and acouple civilians we had already been told that there are a lot of suits around and that’s that just means CIA inthe area a lot of activity suit activities so we knew something was up the man who actually briefed us wenicknamed mr. peepers because he looked like the mr. peepers from from the screen bill Colby and he was stationchief there for the CIA and south southeast asia and actually the the CIAdoes not operate in a in a arena was not allowed to operate in that arena as theCIA so his actual designation was ambassador movie attached through the Embassy in Saigon you know politicalofficers or political officers and that’s how they get away with that so this was the night before you jump onyour mission it ended up being three days before we jump because we had some weather delays on the mission theythe other man that was with him the general from Washington was general HaigAlexander Haig that’s correct I know him well as a matter of fact I interviewedhim in the White House on occasion when I was with the FBI that’s another story I’ll tell you thatwas some day folks I never have revealed that to anybody but my interview withgeneral Haig and then I saw him years later at a banquet State Department banquet and I walked up to him by theway I I read him his rights when I went in the White House I said you have a right to remain silent right to anattorney and I met him at a banquet years later State Department and I walked up you gave the speech it was ayou know a social affair and I introduced myself oh I remember you says are you gonna read me my rights today hebulletproof yeah it’s Alexander Agee mr.peepers are there bill Colby who later became director of the CIA and whatwould they tell you they explained to us that the the recent general Haig wasthere as that the he was the assistant to our national security advisor HenryKissinger Kissinger work directly for the president and the president had decided that it was in the best interestof the country and of the war to see to the end of the war as quickly as possible an operation Red Rock was oneof those key elements to that they needed to get the foreign nations Laos Thailand Cambodia more involved on theoffense and the offensive level rather than in a defensive posture in the war so that we could start extracting troopsout and leave the arena what we needed to do was go and jump into what they hadplanned for us to do was jump into one of our allies countries dressed as North Vietnamese sappers that’s why we wereworking with these other sappers sapper is what a prisoner of war no a sapper isa a North or as a Vietnamese communist soldier okay right tunnel diggers youknow you we’ve all heard of occasional guerrillas okay a true true guerrillavery very well trained so these these sappers are who we were actually goingin with to phenom 10 airport in Cambodia the reason it was decided to do this waslon know the CIA placed premier of Cambodia at the time was still fencesetting he just wouldn’t get in a heavy offensive posture against the Chinese led armies of North Vietnam he wassitting on the fence and we decided if we went in as North Vietnamese sappers and totally destroyed the assets on theairport which were primarily supplied by the United States anyhow they were our aircraft that we’d given him there weresome French aircraft on on the tarmac but not many if we would totally destroythose assets it would make him realize that the North Vietnamese communistswere actually coming in after his country now and he’d get off the fence and ask us for help boy it worked too well you said no wedecided you meeting people Washington DC decided next Nixon or Nixon himself sodr. Kissinger came up with this idea came a Mixon approved it he approved itwith the statement after after thorough thought that and this was debriefed tome by mr. colbey that no one can ever know no one can ever know what we’vedone to our allies otherwise we wouldn’t be trusted anywhere in the world and wasthat the case was the case no one could ever know what we had done and I was wewere debrief we were debriefed with the 25 year classification period well you were debriefed years a lot of yearslater I was debriefed when I came out of the coma not in the hospital in 1971 okay now this is what you’re now againgoing back to the 1971 when you’d known you made the drop and you were debriefed in January of 71 and then I wasdebriefed in June of 70 okay okay so you made the drop withthese sappers right made the drop it was a night jump out of it out of a seat atc130 night drop in just south of town wemade our way into phenom penh we rendezvous with our transportation our transportation was provided by Monctonyards mountain men mountain men from Vietnam Special Forces trained very goodfighters but the thing about Montone yards is if they saw that the platoonthat they were working with in special the Special Forces platoons or the Recon groups they were working with they sawthat they were gonna lose all of a sudden those guys disappeared into the forest they weren’t gonna lose with them right and they could negotiate those jungleslike it was nothing now you were 13 men did you have 13 sappers no unfortunatelywe lost one sapper and snake just didn’t get along with him neither did Pablo butsnake has code words for two of the guys your crew they can Pablo yeah they didn’t get along with them so we didn’tgo in with the full contingency of sappers when we did jump in the sappers had figured out that they weren’t goingin we had told them our interpreter told them that we were actually jumping in to turn them over and trade them forAmerican prisoners and they were in a release program well they didn’t believe that so they had their own plant contingency plans set up and when wewere what when when we jumped in they simply because they were hanging belowus and in front of us for the jump they simply tucked caused us to and caused usto fall and roll and tried to take us out and how many sappers were there 12 then uh-huh 12 and 13 and but and whenit was all said and done there was eight eight sappers sappers we left there soyou a few of them tried to escape and died as we traversed trying to get torched so five of them in total no noyou had four of them and four of them with us four of them the forum died right after you jumped right because ittried to overtake you now what did you do with the others that were there that did survive well we had to leave someevidence of who was provide the operation we had to leave it upleave him on the airport so we released him on the airport and let gave him afair chance to go and then shot him and in the meantime did you commit your actto sabotage at the airport after that or before that we had several different entry points into the airport we came inthe north side by the munitions dump and you know when we talked about coming inthe north side we didn’t realize that there were mines in this called a deadzone and it was completely mine between the two fences and we weren’t briefed on that so we immediately knew somethingwas up and we weren’t we know now that we weren’t to return and we were to be left there well if you came in and you wentthrough the minefield you survived going in right I didn’t go through that the minefield I came in the front door ofthe airport with the team okay the ones that came in through the minefield did they survive yes the sapper didn’t joinsee they sent as a proud Adam the Sabbath sapper when they figured out they were in a minefield they let him goahead to clear the mines okay so you committed your act of sabotage yes andwhat about ground forces at the airport the other side well it was a stagedarena the ground forces had been pulled away there was men a minimum security just a skeleton crew there we ran acrossthe skeleton crew of palace guards that had been there confronted him and had totake him out and so it was your your actto sabotage quite all-inclusive or was it just kind of a hit and miss situationjust to let you let him know that so called the North Vietnamese have been in there we even had air support frompilots whether flying North Vietnameseaircraft they drop some rounds on on the airport so that wecould ensure that the devastation was good enough to warrant lawn Knowles participation with us and you’vecompleted your mission the sappers were eliminated you left how many survivedcoming out of there and there were 13 everyone every one of you every one of us walked out walked out of that at campweren’t they worried about one of you going and being identified as an Anglo at the airport even though you’redressed in North Vietnamese uniform and if there was a contingency for that we had what called what’s called slap necksit’s a it’s a napalm filled containerthat we could pour the napalm on the body and papa magnesium grenade whiskey feet and burntheir body right there so not recognizable ender okay you got out and what happened after that how’d you getout of there the montón yards who were tasked with the transportation we had a rendezvouspoint we met we exited the area of operation and started heading north outof town we knew it was 15 to 25 miles to the northeast of town was a rendezvous point where we were to be picked up butthat you know it’s not like the interstates we have here these are little little roads we we had a firstindication that something was wrong because our platoon sergeant pop saw that we were going in the little bit ofthe wrong direction and we never really turned to the northeast and then the timing was off all of a sudden theystopped and it wasn’t long enough to have gone 15 klicks through 20 klicks outside of townso 50 kilometers you went maybe for what five ten maybe about ten after we left the limits in town right right so youstopped and what happened then well the the we were in a large vegetable truck with canvas sights itcame it came it stopped and the Montone yards got out but we all of a sudden we heard receivers click they were theywere loading their weapons so poppin and my way are our teamcommander moved round to the back of the truck they each took out a grenade oneach side and tossed the grenade back toward the the front of the truck on this on the ground they didn’t pull thepins they just took the grenades out that went when you’re a person you see a grenade fall you jump you dive you tryto get out of there and that’s what the montón yards did when when after they’dthrown the grenades out they immediately jumped out and took took over over to control took control over overcame theguards the interrogation started and it didn’t last long they asked the first one the question when he wouldn’t answerthey shot him they asked the second one the question and he answered anything we wanted to know and then you shot him afterwards you didn’t okay so I won’t gointo that okay now did you find any any situation there in any contingencysituation in looking around I mean well why did they stop at that particularlocation around we went out into the field and we found that there was a large hole that had been put in theground and that was going to be where they were he told us we didn’t have to look around he told us that their jobwas they were briefed that they were to kill us and they were to drop us in the hole and they showed us you know thisone showed us where the hole was we actually used that as a command post area to call in the other call anaircraft for support move the pickup zone from where it was to this new pickup zone we spent some time tothrough that and in through the day and into the evening waiting to be picked up it was quite comprehensive what we hadto go through just to communicate out of the country and get an aircraft to come in to a place that we weren’t you know Iwe contacted moonbeam which was our airborne command post in the area of operations on HF frequencies – highfrequencies and tried to get them to come in and you know the pilot said well you can’t bethere because we aren’t there you know in Cambodia and that has only recently I guess in the past what 10 years or socome out that yeah we really were in there we really were operating in Cambodia we really were operating inLaos and these were classified arenas so this did you have an alternative planin case something went wrong that you would be picked up at a certain location there then the the plan that we had myway had thought early on you know things just he’d been through a lot of these missions as a team commander he and pophad decided well things really don’t seem as they are here there’s something wrong and I guess anytime you anytime they knew that anytime you were workingwith suits you better cover cover your tail because they’re not going to look out for your best interest you have to look out for your own best interest sothey did leave contingency plans back at the base with trusted persons to try and pick us up one of them being a friend ofmine who was a chopper pilot another being a command command post innoncommissioned officer in charge of the command post so you know contingency plans were there however you had to getmessages to them to get those contingency plans in place and that’s what we were trying to do now did youexpect the airplanes to come in and pick you up at that point yeah after we talked to them we finally got clearancefor them to come in with their one aircraft even came in and circled the LZ ahead of time making sure the area wasclear for the chopper to come in then the chopper came in but from what I was briefed by mr. colbey as a chopper wascoming in the colonel who was involved with the operation from task force alphahad caught on that we had a contingency and we were being extra extracted out ofthe area he didn’t want it to happen he was promised a star if we didn’t comeback now you tell me you had your own contingency without the colonel knowing about he found out about him you bet hefound out you are clever aren’t you not me my way and pop dead my way my hip-hop there they were wonderful there theythey were they could see ahead and pop has severe brain damage today from from that you still alive still alive yes andso so chip you have this one location we’re supposed to be picked up were yousmart enough not to go and wait there you the original location or theoriginal no we never went there went to the new one after that aircraft came inafter when the chopper was inbound to us we had decided well here here comes our aircraft but they were contacted overradio it was a rescue aircraft the King aircraft coming in they were contacted that there were actually sappers hadtaken over team red rocket remember we were dressed as sappers we didn’t have any US uniforms if we have been caughtin country we’d been prosecuted as spies because that’s against all international law so here we were addressed in thesappers in a foreign country talking to these aircraft I was I was controlling him down as a combat controller that’smy job bringing him in to the LZ because there was a very small area bringing him in knowing that we’re gonna leave I meanmy heart was pumping the adrenaline was flowing I was tired I was hungry but man we’re getting out of here and all of asudden the door guns on the on the Jolly let loose I was debrief when we were when I wasdebriefed by Bill Colby he said the colonel had called them and said that team red rock had been overcome it’sactually sappers and protect yourselves they saw sappers remember this is the man who runs the intelligence entity forSoutheast Asia telling him this so they fired and how many did you lose there -and how did how did what not mean they didn’t come in and clean so you’re downto 11 now down to 11 they actually had called in we lost two men and but we’vehad to return fire on the aircraft shooting shooting out the rear of the aircraft rather than shooting at thepilots because we didn’t want to hurt our own you know we did the father the plane go down no no it we shot look from thesmoke and everything it looked like maybe some hydraulics were shot out on it or something we weren’t sure at anyrate thing they left the area but they called in some air support to drop to drop on that to LZ bombs drop napalmZhaan it uh-huh so we got out we got out of the area quick and as we were exiting the sky lit up but a until you got outyou’d lost two men and yet along behind head leaving behind using the slap pack so that they never be identified rightokay so there’s 11 out what did you decide to do then well we decided wewere we would be best to try to make it across country ourselves trust no oneand that’s that’s the way these guys operated you know we had some some of the best of the best on that team I wasjust a kid I was a victim of circumstances in there no I mean I had never engaged the enemy before I hadgotten on Team Red Rock but I engaged the enemy almost hourly after I was withTeam Red Rock we traversed across the country going toward toward SouthVietnam toward the Cambodia vet Vietnamese border you’re still in Cambodia still in Cambodia trying to make it to the borderand you have to understand Cambodia was a refuge for the North Vietnamese they could come into South Vietnam they couldattack and then they could pull back across that border and we weren’t allowed to come across that border intoCambodia to attack them and take take them out so they could resupply they could rest recuperate R&R whatever andthen come back in it was a very difficult position and that’s why Nixon wanted to Dinu Trull eyes them right soyou could go after him in Cambodia well maybe the Cambodian country yeah could go after him too right okay so so youhow many kilometers or how many miles did you have to go to get to the border well we didn’t have maps we had no ideawe know that well it was from camp from phenom penh all the way to the border that’s 200 I guess 200 milesso it took we were out for weeks trying to work our way through the jungles we’dcome across some some teams patrols routine patrols and we’d either evadethem or we’d engage them one right how about eating how about food yeah food was pretty easy to get you know asa survival we’d come across villages – and we get food from the villages but it was just shocked the heck out of thevillagers then huh no we were still suggested so I say yeah but I mean youknow you’re white man right well you know we were yes Lana died we were thin and we did have team members who the onecalled the kid was CIA and he was he was Vietnamese so you know it wasn’t that wedidn’t go into the villages ourselves we’d stay back in the in the shadows or the the forest area and the kid would goin and talk to him and get the food and so you know it wasn’t did he survive the kid no the kid did not survive okay butokay so you made your way across some maybe 200 miles and how close were you within four miles of the border ohyou’re kidding and then we saw some F Force circling the area looked like theywere trying to get into an area but there was a triple-a artillery sight anti-aircraft artillery firing on the Ffours and you know we had we still had some some munitions left that we couldtake them out with some c4 packs so we decided hey you know we’ll we’ll just take this out and that was probably ourgreatest mistake we didn’t realize that we were in in the middle of almost a battalion size contingency of NorthVietnamese the Italian size being how many’s troops I have no idea I I know that as as we counted troops and as aswe passed encampments easily over 2000 and here’s 11 men trying to survive 4miles from the border and you decided to take this anti-aircraft blew it to helland back – I guess you did but that wasa mistake because that brought a lot of undue and unnecessary pressure on you and obviously they started lookingaround for you where’d this come from right and as we’d walk across paddies the patrols would be coming one way and you know we dressed as sappers you knowuse it and had didn’t have us munitions or this with all our our munitionswere were Chinese aks and so forth so we would be traversing one side of thepaddy while this other team would come across and Kidd would be there and salute them you know and hey LM and we just keep walking you know but howeverone time we came right up to the forest area we came face-to-face and here’s this here’s this kind of face lookingdirectly into a North Vietnamese lieutenant and we were in troubleobviously obviously did ya did you go into combat then or do you try to wentright into combat oops let me see where’s nak whatever they didn’t haveenough bullets and those from me they my way used to tell me you know I was a white-knuckle fire because I’d hold thattrigger down and melt that barrel the clips just weren’t big enough for me so yet hey man at that point I had hadto hand I’d melted barrels we’d we we actually ran out of ammunition we had to overtake other patrols to stockourselves I mean these guys were good they were the best head they were true American heroes doing doing their job asbest they could don’t you think there’s some day chip and we can honor these men but there’s no way of knowing their last names isthere well you know pop it popped knows a couple of them and I think thatsomeday he may be willing to do that he does have severe neurological problemshe’s able to talk he knows me he remembers what went on but it’s affectedhis motor motor movements and he he’s not willing to to do anything he thinksthat will endanger his family can’t blame him for that I don’t know no and he’s still alive and where is he whatstate is he in Oklahoma good ol okie and so what happens you were captured wewere captured we spent 92 days in captivity being moved from point to point in camps we were actuallyinterrogated by Chinese and Soviet officers it was never Vietnamese officers that the Vietnamese were thereVietnamese soldiers Indian cabinets because it was theirs with the actual linguists and interrogate interrogatorsand those who perform the torture were Chinese and Soviet how many how many doyou have there now in your team I believe ten maybe nine ended up in incaptivity so you lost two along the way and where did they incarcerate you theystarted moving us in the jungles along the border area and not knowing that we were only four kilometers from the border we just know we were being movedwe were incarcerated in one small encampment then we were moved to a larger encampment and this had been usedin the past you could tell because they had cages set up in a semicircular area and they had three posts set up and theywould they took two of us immediately they’d stripped us of our clothing broke might broke this foot my right foot sothat we couldn’t try to escape they’d break everybody’s folk everyone’s well they didn’t broke one of the guys wasalready unconscious and they didn’t break his foot but they broke all of our foot all of our feet to one foot anyhowstripped us of our clothing and put us in these cages two of our two of ourguys they put on the post and we thought that they would be tortured right away but they weren’t they put them on thoseposts so that we could watch them as they suffered up there they weren’t given food they weren’t given water therest of us were giving given some water and some food on occasion and when yousay put him on the post they tied him to post out there where you can see him from your cages and did who interrogatedyou say a Russian and a Chinese sausage read off the Soviet officer seemed to be in charge of this particular camp andthe Chinese officer was that was his cohort was actually the man whoadministered the torture once that started do you want to go into the torture at all we do prefer not to yeahI thought so how about how many men weretorching were you all tortured we were all tortured and when it was all said and done there were three of us alivewhen when we were finallyreleased I shouldn’t even say release though we have you were sure you were rescued actually we were rescued by amarine recon patrol and boy I’ll tell you I love those guys I guess you’d want you marine recons out there a sense ofbuddies that’s the only reason I’m alive today well so there are three of ussurvived so so thirteen came out of the Cambodian airport you lost two from airfriendly friendly skies friendly fire and then across the jungle you lost twomore and now you’re down to what eight had eight we ended up losing the montónyard that was with us that we pulled with us he was ready to start squealinguntil gooey were so we decided loose lips sink ships from the old briefing days so they just took him out we tookhim out ourselves okay this is before you’re captured then and know afterwards oh did you okay okay we were bringinghim back to put in front of that Colonel before these guys did to that Colonelwhat they intended to do to him okay so can I mention the one the colonel thatyou had at a medal on him originally the religious medal on his captain the captain had a religious medal on hisaround his neck sexy st. Christopher medal I think I’m not sure the medal ofCatholic or something yes and they just if I mentioned there’s just one thing one of the tortures that they did wasskin him alive right skinned him alive in front of the rest of you but put him in a configuration like a cross as aChristian and skinned him alive in front of us held knives and bayonets to our temples required us to watch watch it ifwe closed our eyes or tried to turn our heads they started pushing in and Godhave mercy on his soul tragic and then so you’re you’re rescued and there was afight there at the camp between the Marines fight the Marines didn’t know we were in the encampment they they came inthey were mapping the area for a Lam son 719 number they were just simply intheir mapping it mapping the area and they were told if they came across any prisoner wars dowhat you need to to extract him so they they were actually found out by the bythe guards and a firefight ensued our guys won and three of us were left aliveafter that however one of them one of our guys from a Chinese officer had a stomach wound and that was prettyunfortunate he was a good Kansas kid you know he had a stomach wound and he I was told when we were debriefed that helater died from that wound I was we had gotten out of the cages and startedrunning for the jungle and I recall seeing one of the young Marines go down on a knee level down on me and I wasrunning my weight was on my right leg and he shot a ricochet I it wasn’t afull-force bullet a ricochet hit me and in the leg bent my leg backwards and I tumbled and I’m also told that a grenadewent off and it hit me in the back of the head across here pretty good scar back there right now that rendered me unconscious and causeda lot of swelling on the brain so I was Arabic from from Saigon I was Arabicinto Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines well did the Marines if hewas far enough he didn’t realize he didn’t realize they didn’t know we were there and at what point did where the Murraysaware that they had some POWs on their hands our team member that was shot in thestomach started yelling in English to them and so they realize okay you savedour lives and so you came out and you went over to Clark Air Force Base afterthat right and that when I finally came to later within three days that man fromSaigon bill Colby was there to debrief me and at that point he told me that I have two choicesI can work directly for the CIA or I can stay with the military which I’ve hadsuch great experiences with and work under the operational control of the CIAwell you know honestly I figured hey you know I’ve got this tour in Vietnam I canstay in the States now I don’t I never have to come back I said okay I’ll stay in the military because with the CIA Iknow I could go anywhere you know but I had a government commitment still so I said I’ll stay with I’ll stay with theAir Force you guys can control my assignments little did I know that I’d spend moreyears back in that arena working later for a company called Air America in thedebriefing session if you can tell if this were you informed of the fact thatas to who put the orders out these none of you should return none of you shouldbe come back alive he told me that it was Nixon gave the order that no one can survive and bill said that when he gotthat order and Haig and Kissinger disagreed with it but the orders came from the commander-in-chief himself sohe had to plan the contingency as such he said but I you know sergeant Tatum Iplanned it so that I knew you guys could overcome this obstacle the two mountainmen that’s right but yeah but the we just didn’t have a contingency for therest of it nothing you can do when you have a United States Army colonel in theUnited States Air Force colonel both become traitors to their country whereare these Colonels today I don’t know okay so much for that questionI wouldn’t put money on that what is okay anyway so be it let’s leave that asis you come back you go to work for the Air Force on a contingency plan to alsowork with the CIA right operation will control all my orders at that point would be controlled by the centralagency they they would work through actually the position that they used towork to gain movements as I would receive orders and see who signed the orders was a person who would providewho would be seated as the deputy director of intelligence to the JointChiefs of Staff and most of the orders that I have you’ll see I have some I don’t they may be in there one of themmay be in there you’ll see that this person is the person who will would sign those orders through the years andactually move me from one place to another at one point that man’s name was Colin Powell so what was that calledwhat was Colin Powell’s rank at that time I think he was a two-star general at that time that position was atwo-star so in essence you actually went to work for the CIA even though you werein the military status and pretty pretty illegal you know you can’t we couldn’tdraw draw checks from two entities double dip but our operational effortswere all controlled by the CIA and what were your assignments after that you came back you recovered you gained yourhealth back when you were being taken care ofphysically and regaining your health was pop with you your friend from Oklahoma no he had been sent straight back to theStates his head wounds he received head wounds also they were so severe that he had to go straight back to the traumacare center so that was the end of your relationship association with pop untillater years until later years okay you’ve been in touch with you once understand okay but right now you’regoing to work you’re still in the Air Force you’re going to work for the CIA what were your assignments one of theassignments to give you an example I was moved all over the place I was sent down working because it was such an intensemission and there was a lot of knowledge on my part the orders were they wanted to hold me close to the White House so Iwas actually weren’t they afraid you’re gonna talk well that’s what they wanted to ensure you know if they just gave me openmovement it’s one thing but they can be very under very tight means I worked in Key Biscayne at homestead Air Force Baseand the White House down there I was in charge of the receiver site for AirForce one when they would come in in addition was Nixon the president Texan was the president what you littlenervous over that as a matter of fact myself and my NCOIC were going out tothe control tower to bring in Air Force One at one point and he had made amention to the Secret Service as they were checking badges of personnel going in saying he he said can I see what areyou doing in the area and the master sergeant said oh we’re here to here to see the crook we found ourself face downby the Secret Service they got our credentials they said what are you guys doing talking like that yeah Nick saidgiven the order that you were not to return from an assignment and I never know that you know right I’d never toldmy NCOIC I kept my lips closed and zipped for for all 25 years and in 1996 that was theend of the 25 year classification period and I had start I started my book there but before we go up to 1996 chip you hadsome assignments involving drugs in drug running by the CIA right well and yeahin you’re not reluctant to talk about that or you know in two different arenas and South Korea earned in the Vietnameseconflict there was some involvement simply because the Air America pilotsyou know sometimes would carry drugs sometimes they’d carry wheat sometimes they’d carry rice sometimes they’d carryweapons you know there was various cargos that they carry and my job whenan aircraft went down primarily because they were carrying crypto gear communication gear that was secret and had codes on itthat couldn’t be gotten by the enemy I would have to jump in I retrieve thiscrypto gear and many times retrieve the precious cargoes it was onboard heroinsometimes and see that it was extracted Air America being a CIA operation so youhad that in Vietnam and then you came back and you went to work you were involved in actually when Nixon went toPeking I was involved in that okay tell us about that I was sent ahead of him into a placecalled Guam I controlled the aircraft across and then I was moved over closer like well year we know that was I think72 maybe 72 so you were you were youwent to Guam you were to control could the air travel can control the air force one across and then we were also theprimary one of the primary communication stations I was moved to a place that we use today even as a primary combo spotand I can’t give that place away but is very close to China to the Chinese border then we were moved there tomaintain contact in case there was an emergency so we had been finders and butthat was it I mean basically you were just guiding the plane I mean let keeping the lanes open so no other aircraft would be in that here air laneright we’d keep aircraft 25 miles from Air Force One we’d have two fighter aircraft and four in front of Air Forceone to two fighters to the rear and have rescue aircraft up in different locations along the way and okay there’snothing unusual about him going to pay keno is there okay other than he was thefirst president to go to China right and and now and going along him with himwith open access was dr. Kissinger so right okay let’s go back to your CIAactivity in South America and Central America in 1978 I actually left serviceof the government that bill Colby had being my handler had moved on in theearly 70s to Washington to take a position and ultimately became the director of the CIA he maintainedbecause of the sensitivity of what I knew from that mission he maintaineddirect control over me and when he passed the baton on to thenew director of the CIA that new director called me back out of the field I was in Yugoslavia at the time – Colbydebrief me and mr. Bush rebreathe me andhe was explained during the briefing and debriefing that I was loyal I was I was a good man anything he needed I was atrusted entity and he could count on me I had no problems with that Bush washead of CIA at that time and he personally debriefed you he personally in briefed me as his person and briefedme out right as one of his personal assets right so that was my first contact with the man who would somedaybecome president bill had become a good friend Colby through the years andworked with me trained me taught me the ropes and he told me he said chip youknow you do have some inner enemies in Washington you know you know that Hague and Kissinger are very powerful menNixon is a very powerful man you need to be sure that maybe you need to leavegovernment service I don’t have me up here in Kentucky any longer so I did in 78 I left we relocated to Coloradostarted my family got married relocated to Colorado start a little sandwich shop and I was in the sandwich shop one dayand in walked these two guys with sunglasses and suits againokay you’re jumping ahead and I want to go back out to Central South America are you avoiding that or no you haven’toh really 1980 when I was nineteen eighty you reactivated okay so you go to Colorado and all of a sudden two guyswith suits walk in with sunglasses and what do they say to you they say bulldog and I just thought oh no and I didn’tanswer then they said Pegasus and that was the code name that I was given so I knew youknow I I didn’t know who they were at first but when they use Pegasus I knew I was toast all rightPegasus was a code word used for your operation right you personally for mythat was my code name okay so I was I was told that I my new assignment was togo to a place called Fort Campbell Kentucky but you were out of the service in as a reserve officer you’re neverreally you know you’re in the reserve the reserves right so I was reactivatedI was sent to a place called Fort Campbell Kentucky they decided after the problem in the desert trying to get thehostages held in Iran where our aircraft all went into one another that theyneeded a task force set up for anti-terrorism so they decided they’d put together an aviation task force atfor again they took CIA officers theyput them under the control of the National Security Council and they built this new unit called one sixtiethaviation company that really wasn’t on any of the military tío any equipment lists so there we wereanother covert operation another covert operation build a building itself in Fort Campbell Kentucky during durinduring the time from 80 1980 through 1980for that we were building that unit testing different techniques of flight testing different flight platforms a lotof them I can’t talk about we would get into some heavy losses because we weredoing things that never were done with these helicopters and other aircraft that we were flying and so on oneparticular occasion we lost the we lost one of our unit commanders a major flewinto some high power lines during a night nighttime exercise he was killed hisco-pilot a Warrant Officer had his legs cut off during the crash and post crash investigation a man from Washington cameenemy had identified himself as Jake he was accompanied by another man who wouldn’t identify himself and so we justnicknamed him the snake because Jake the snake Jake and the snake that’s that’s who was there he was pretty slimy guyyou know we would later find that Jake was a person who was attached to the NSC and his actual name was Oliver North andthat’s your first contact with Ollie north that was my first contact with Ollie north and so what happened afterthen we had saying we the the gut UnitedStates government had pushed for a little rebellion down in Central Americaa place called Nicaragua they had pushed and helped organize a group of rebelscalled the Contras they talked them into fighting against the Sandinistas I don’t know why I havesome ideas why but I won’t get into just my ideas because I don’t know why otherthan someone thinking that it’s a terrible thing that a country have its own sovereignty and not do like we arehave this not be ruled by the CIA at anyrate the the CIA helped promise that they would fund and they would back thisrebellion but a man named Boland came out with a with an act in Congress thatafter we had set this thing up and it started the war was in full swing downthere didn’t allow us to support them any longer except in a humanitarian effort so the next thing I knew I guessbecause of my tact with it then then vice-president of the United States who actually oversawby national security decision directive number two actually saw oversaw all intelligence operations George BushGeorge Bush having been personally handled by him and him knowing that I was reactivated and working in thisspecial operations unit in Fort Campbell Kentucky they said that we want you to go down posing as a humanitarian down there inthe briefing with north I said what do you mean is a humanitarian he said you’re gonna be a medevac pilot nowyou’re gonna fly in medical aircraft into these contra camps that’s humanitarian it’s lau allowed and you’llyou’ll serve in the briefing he said you’ll serve three entities you’ll serve the United States Army as a medevacpilot you’ll serve the United States Embassy through the through the militaryoffice and and you will serve and that was CIA and you’ll simply serve thePegasus operations that we’ll call it because of your code name and Pegasus operations are directly controlled bythe NSC now it was just north give you this briefing in Colorado when he walked into your shop or was this laterthough this was much later this this briefing was act was actually done in Fort Campbell Kentucky then the nextthing I knew I you know I know North gave you the briefing there right so North walks into your shop and Coloradosays a come on to two agents walked all what an aura I thought Jake was north nono okay well Jake was but Jake and the state came to crash investigation wheremy commander had gotten killed I see okay so the the people who walked intoColorado that northern that was not there were just a couple agent company and let me know I’m going back to work okay right and and then you were briefedby I found that they were actually NSA okay you want to explain what NSA isNational Security Agency they do a lot of the background checks and everything in the United States a lot of the spookswho listen to everything that’s said here is NSA right the communications mainly is their job like wiretap andkeeping track of all of us via the telephones and that’s their job soyou’re in Fort Campbell you’re giving this you’re gonna be flying in and out and medical supplies right and where youflying these medical supplies out of out of the Carter camps when I finally went down posing as a medevac pilot we wouldwe went into the contra camps we’d always take coolers in usually the coolers going in were c-4 explosivesgrenades things like that and we would bring medical supplies out and thosemedical supplies we would bring out in these coolers and big hundred and twenty hundred twenty four quart coolers we’reAct was actually packages you know bricks of cocaine okay did you actually see this actually saw itactually tested it and where did you do this we did field tests right in our medevac offices in Palmer Royal Air Baseso before you’d put it on the plane you test to make sure it was real cocaine nowe we tested them on several occasions we didn’t test every package but someoccasions they were delivered to our operations headquarters of Palmer olla to take to an it to a aircraft at adifferent location to fly out of the country and whenever that happened I would actually do a field test on itright there on occasion when I could get away with it without anyone seeing me I’d do a field test on the aircraft thatwas pretty hard to do chip you’re flying out of what airfield field in the United States in Honduraswe were flying out of the contra camps into three airfields and one was San Lorenzo one was Palmer Ola and the otherwas in the northern part of the country called La Mesa from there the the coolers were picked up by c-130s c-141sor one civilian 123’s c-123 is run by a company called corporate air servicethat’s not a corporate air service is also being CIAand they were flown back into the States I would find on a meeting on March 24th1985 that there were actually three different legs that would that stuff was moved on in and those legs were intoOhio and into Colorado and into a little place in the center of the country in 1985 called Arkansas what airfield markand so I know that there were two airfields in Arkansas one was ArkansasAir Force Base and the other one was a place called Mena and now about in Ohioin the Dayton Ohio was then in Colorado it was into Lamar Colorado and so youlearned that the drop that you the drugs are coming in and cocaine yeah on CIAplanes everything went through Panama and then from Panama was distributed out where the CIA planes or military planesmilitary and CIA both know now are youtested it personally do you have any documents that would indicate that this is so yes oh you do I had no idea ofcourse I did that courtside yeah that was a loaded question ship that was thatwas I knew the answer to that before I asked it okay tell us about that when Istarted finding the cocaine on board the aircraft I decided hey you know this could go one of two waysthey could set us up pretty darn quick here if they ever wanted to get rid of us because of our knowledge andespecially because of my knowledge because bill had told me you know chip watch your butt buddy you know you havesome real enemies here in Washington so what I did is I took the we would be required to file flight plans when we’dleave Pomerol airbase where we based out of in Honduras we’d file flight plans and when we’d come back I’d go to theair go to base operations and write on the back of that flight plan what we found where we took it who was onboardthe aircraft and what went on during the flight basically I debrief write on the back of flight planswhen a trusted hunter and official who happened to be the brother of theHonduran army chief of staff saw what I was doing he said we’re going to keep these you know in a safe place this isour insurance Jim I said okay and thosenotes are available in right datum in the Tatum chronicles I’m sorry thosenotes are available in the Tatum chronicles I went back to Honduras in 1985 and picked up those certifiedcopies that are in those in the Tatum chronicles it talks about all the people that you heard that you’ve heard oftoday involved in Honduras involved in the Contra cocaine issues not only thatit also talks about persons before it even happened because these are certified copies that were sealed in1985 by Honduran officials it talks about people who needed to beneutralized and assassinated and who later were killed and chip what’d you do with these documents besides hiding themaround the world in there i also published them in the tatum chronicles when i was charged with treasoni was told to give give these documents up or i’d be charged with treason and be put to death or spend life imprisonmentso I called The Secret Service officers that came in and told me that weretasked to tell me this by the president and I I called them in and I said okay boys I’ve got the documents for you come getthem in the meantime we published this Senate to White House Library sent it to the White House to James door skin’ ishis name that a personal assistant to the President Clinton sent it to mr.Bush sent it to others involved in to Capitol Hill and then I gave these guys to copy the Secret Service agents andthey said you just signed your death warrant I said kill me boys let’s go man I might also mention that you had someother papers and other documents you held back right over over 25 years I wasable to compile quite an insurance policy these documents are nothing compared tothose documents I feel comfortable and coming forward with these and the only reason I’m coming forward with these Ihad no intention of ever doing anything with these but when they went after my wife they went after an American citizenand that’s unacceptable in my mind going after other foreign intelligence officers foreign politicians and all youknow that’s just part of the spook business that’s what we did in counter espionage but you don’t do that againstour own citizens when you try to neutralize an American citizen you’ve got against everything I believe isright and I’ll do everything I can to expose the men involved now you have otherdocuments around the world right you have videos and printed matter videos audios that have been placed on thevideos many many video clips of different des meetings I’ve attended different orders being given documentsthat have been put on the video you know technology’s great Ted you know I’d go into some of these high-level meetingsand because I was the chief chief of security for these groups I would ensurethat note nothing’s being bugged the place was clean so we’d sweep the place and I keep my bugs going the whole timeso you don’t want had smart man chip date of okay that’s why you’re alivetoday obviously that’s probably one of the safest men alive right now I think I would think so because if anythinghappens you then these come forward right that’s right and the chip I wantto come back to this in just a minute but I want to go back to Central South America CIA drug-running etc etc did youhave any personal conversations with ollie north after Fort Campbell sure onone particular cave well on many occasions Ollie was down there I also called him through White House switchand told him that I found drugs on board the aircraft I said you know Colonel north what is this you know we havedrugs on board these aircraft what are they doing on the aircraft he said they were excuse me evidence bound for worldcourts to prosecute the Sandinistas how many tons of evidence did you he eighttons couldn’t it just take a sample well it got worse than that I would go intothese contra camps and here would be these large fuel pods that had the tops cut off and they had they were gellingtheir own stuff there you know they couldn’t get enough bazooka bazooka which was the paste used to make cocainethey couldn’t get enough of it from the mid gene cartel that they had caught ties with coming up from Peru so theystarted bringing bales of their own leaves and bales of little green pods you know I couldn’t figure out whatthese little boozed a who’s a the man who was in charge of bringing everything up was a man named Ramon Navarro he wasa dret dressed as a lieutenant colonel in some some military I didn’t figure out what uniform he was wearing couldhave been a cabby uniform I don’t know but Ramon Navarro and he would later be killed in 1991 just before he wasscheduled to testify in the Noriega case and what about ollie north besides yourtelephone conversation was in country on several occasions that on April 12th even the Vice President Bush was incountry about 12:00 what year 1985 and we’re north and Bush together nottogether in the same encampment at that time though North was there so in talking to Ollie north personally otherthan the telephone conversation what was said in regard to drugs being brought in by CIN on the Army in one cocainekitchen as he was talking to a Mirim NIR and another intelligence officer he toldthem that one more year of this and we can all retire now you heard that conversation I taped that conversationoh very good you taped that conversation and what other conversations could youtell us about as far as only North is concerned not only conversations you know Ollie was he loved to be the centerof attention so one particular occasion we had him standing at a cocaine press trying to press you know pressing thebricks in this sandanista camp I don’t think so it was they they called thesethe North camps because North set him up and how many such patients were set upthere were about five of the kitchens that were set up did Ollie North’s enemylocations Ollie north is the one who supplied all logistical support for that yes and when was the last time you had aconversation with Ollie north last time I talked to Ollie north was in September of 1994 he and Felix Rodriguez called mein my office in Colorado I’d gone back to Colorado gotten out of the business gone back toColorado 25 years was enough and he called me and told me to give up thedocuments or else the documents that he had in hiding those those flight plansand so forth yeah but you’d already had already printed clothes you hadn’t yet okay I wasn’t gonna say anything I wassitting I was sitting in Colorado as just a little businessman running a mortgage company not bothering anyonejust wanting to raise my family I had what did you tell him I told him are youcrazy if I give you these for one thing they’re headed for the shredder and for another thing I know what it’s aterminal effort there’s no way let’s go four or else I’m always a fighter What did he say to that well I he said welllet me get someone else and they called me back and Bill Colby was on the phone I said bill I said you know to givethese documents stuff to give all this stuff up his terminal I said you know I’m going to keep them and he said wellyou know then we’re going to have to hit your credibility I said okay hit my credibility what do you want meto do he said well walk into the US Attorney’s Office and just tell him you did something wrong I said I did wouldyou tell walked into the US Attorney’s Office I wired myself some money out of an account down across the state lineand then I into my corporation then I took it out took it out and put it intomy personal account and because because in the mortgage business that can be considered embezzlement embezzlementI told him that I participated in wire fraud arrest me please and so they didbut then they found out once they put the attorney on it they found out well you know it’s really not the mortgageindustry really isn’t regulated in Colorado I said listen I’m going to admit to thisbecause they said that they wanted to involve my wife in it I said but you guys have to promise you leave her outof this they said ok I said let’s go forward with the pleading so I stood in front of a federal judge and I said andhe asked me if I did this and I said yes but before I said yes I leaned over and I asked the US attorney my wife’s gonnastay clear and she said yes and so I said ok I’ll sign the plea agreement your honor and he said yeah and it’s thepart of testimony he really didn’t want to go forward with it he said you know this really does a nice and I said yourhonor believe me I wired those funds I took those funds I spent them how much money involved$70,000 of my money ok but they didn’tleave your wife alone they didn’t they came after her and so when I went before the judge for sentencing I told him atthat time you know I didn’t want to go forward with it I’d like to withdraw the plea but it was too late at that pointhe said the thing to do is after this is all done you can go ahead and ask thatthe plea would be withdrawn at the appeals court and that’s where we’re at now and you’re getting ready and a couple of days to go and you have you’veappealed it the appellate level you’re gonna have a decision in about two more days right on the 24th of February areyou looking the prison time no I don’t think so I’ve already spent two years ofthat time in prison and I don’t think that they want me back in prea Lee don’t think they won’t be back in prison theywant you to be quiet I was due to do 47 months and the last thing they wanted was me in prison simply because therewere death threats against me in prison and to NSA officers came in to see me when I was in prison and Jessup and toldme that the warden advised them that there were people that wanted to kill me from the Mexican Mafia and the Crips andthe Bloods that I had crossed them the wrong way I’d heard some of their men actually I didn’t I was an offensivetoward them they have their little scams that go on and I wouldn’t participate so they’re enforcers one of their enforcesI broke his leg and they didn’t like that so they they had a hit out on me a contract in prisontake me out and the NSA came in and said you can’t allow this to happen if you’re killed those tapes will come forward andI said that’s right they said well you got to give us a tape so I said kids are you crazy and it’s unbelievable theysend such young kids in at least they could send somebody mature you know that I would have a little respect for butthey send them young and dumb that’s the way they do well you there’s two factions in the CIA I understand now the Greybeards and whatdo they call the other faction that’s not in those Bush kids yeah that’s it it’s not knows Clinton it’s not knowsClinton now I okay chip so they charge didn’t they charge you with treason atone point well yeah when I was held in in prison before the trial that I wentthrough they they told me that if I didn’t give the documents up I’d be charged with treason I said okay let’sdance and that’s when I actually pumped that’s when I published this gave themtheir copies and and went forward and right in the right in the Tatum Chronicles I mean the the Tampa Tribunecaught on to it pretty quick and did abig article County inmate faces mysterious charge of treason you knowthey knew they weren’t gonna be able to go forward with that particular charge so they had to find something else sowhat they ended up charging is they couldn’t go far with the embezzlement charge but yourself they couldn’t go forward with that they couldn’t go forward with the treason chargeso what they did is they brought in a man a lieutenant colonel who not Ollie north no Ollie North’scampaign manager oh really velu singer they gave him complete immunity actually not complete immunitycame in he said Tatom conspired with me to make a false statement i embezzled some funds andTatum but Tatum told me I could have him got you for conspiracy again got me for conspiracy because because a person cameforward and and said that an overt act had taken place well not now he’d been convicted himself right of bank fraudokay and so what’s he what did he do make a deal with the government to get his sentence reduced if you come in andlie about it it’s better than that he was facing 20 years for his stuff but if he came in and told a good enough lie hewould get six months and and it would be expunged from his regime he actually got six weeks yes and it was expunged fromhis record so he’s a rich man within reason that is a tip before we go I wantto let’s continue now with the problems involving the court and so forthanything else you want to mention that they they came after Nancy your wife by the way let me mention folks there’s a separate interview with Nancy Tatumwhich goes into detail and we talked about Nancy’s new book joining Club fedand that’s worth checking out and purchasing and reading because thatsubstantiates and corroborates what chip is telling us here right today is there anything else you want to mention aboutthe court proceedings well I think the important thing for everyone to know is the United States federal courts are notyour friend they’re not in the United States federal court officers are definitely not your friends althoughthey would like to let you think that they’re on your side they want to do everything for you and your family sowork with them on this they’re not going to do that and that’s quite evident even today we see just recently two men hiredtwo men were actually arrested on a big anthrax scare the courts didn’tinvestigate it they just got from a non credible source that something was happening and they went out and arrestedthem this is Larry Wayne Harris and bill 11 that’s going to Las Vegas Nevada and now they’re finding out that thesemicrobiologists were actually putting together a vaccine for anthrax you know they don’t think and I told they knew bythe way I was personally involved in that case I had interviewed Larry Ayers day before he was arrested on my localtalk TV stay program Ted Gunderson intelligence report and the media talked to me afterthey arrested I said nothing to it believe me it’s going to go away these men are not terrorists they’re talkingabout defensive protection not offense go ahead and that’s right in the court system as it set up today is is not setup as a tool for justice it’s set up as a tool for retribution anyone that they want they can get and you’re going tospend two years in jail until there until you get to appellate level where you have a little bit of a chance forjustice to be heard but never at the district level chip going back to GeorgeBush how many conversations did you have with George Bush hundreds when he washead of the CIA by phone and in person or both not as many probably about thirty at the CIA but more post CIAafter 1986 when I was placed into what’s called the operational subgroups where I worked alongside Danish intelligenceTurkish intelligence British intelligence Mossad we had groupings offoreign intelligence officers that worked directly under the fight that the vice president later the president ofthe United States did George Bush have knowledge about the drug operation coming out of Central America and SouthAmerica yes explain well he was in oneof the camps yeah but did he know about it ending at a press charge was also anadditional knowledge was standing right at a cocaine and did you have a picture of that in a place called ruse ruse I have a picture of something okay wewon’t go into that so George Bush was aware of it to Ollie north was aware of it how about Clinton Bush was absolutelyaware of it began and I can say that because on the 24th of March 1985William Barr who would later become Attorney General knowing well you know of him wellWilliam bar actually called Vice President Bush via SATCOM and talked to him about the loss of over a hundredmillion dollars in assets of the enterprise and we all know the enterprise today as being the thecompany that are the operation that ollie north set up a hundred milliondollars and who got their grubby hands on that it was decided that there were three entities involved not oneparticular person but Noriega had involvement that SEAL Barry seal hadinvolvement and that the governor of Arkansas who was involved in it at the time Bill Clinton had involvement and ofthe three seal has been murdered Noriega is in jail Noriega was to be murderedthough and they they went all the way they took the troops down there in 89 to eliminate him and he survived by goinginto I think Catholic Church didn’t earn well Bob Bobby hunter SEAL team to commander had orders to goin and shoot Noriega when he tried to get out at the airport he never showed up there because we told him ahead oftime the CIA told him he’s a friend of the CIA he was an enemy of Bush that’s nothing more than a business deal gonebad we let him know ahead of time that there was a contingency coming in toassassinate him needed to get to a safe house so he chose that particular church as a safe housethe Catholic Church Catholic Church got cameras out there so that he was safe and now the only one that’s left is BillClinton and did Bill Clinton take the two hundred million dollars one hundred million dollars whatever it was you got a large portion of it a very largeportion of it however you know I’m gonna tell you now Bush is a very vindictiveman I don’t think that Clinton is out of out of the water with it you know Ithink he’s still in some hot water and that could be a lot of the pressure that he’s seeing today it may be a little bit of a vendetta to get even you never haveto get even tomorrow Ted in the business that we’re in you never push for something to happen right away unless unless there’s an operational need forthat time down the road whatever you’re talking about the Monica Lewinsky is asituation right maybe that says so maybe it doesn’t if you look historically Iknow that I was told that Bush was going to leave bugs in the White House when heleft why would he do that to another present unless he has a personal interest or personal vendetta there the bugs in theWhitehouse folks don’t mean electronic bugs you know the best bug in the world are the best information in the world iscalled human intelligence so what you do is you take these career person at White House personnel and you put them in theWhite House and they’re listening and they’re recording keeping track of everything that’s going on well it’sit’s hard to put an electronic device in the White House if Starr thought that he could take a trip or Lewinsky and put itput a bug on them and get them in the White House that all they didn’t up was that person in prison we’re trying to bug someone in the White House you don’tget into the White House with a bug but but you get in there with with a brain that can that can keep that intelligencein it and pass it on that’s how you get in and that’s how you above the White House see he always had constantinformation flowing to him from the White House from career in the WhiteHouse you know why did they all of a sudden throw these people out of the travel office perhaps they thought thatmaybe there was a little intelligence work going on there probably to Clinton yes look at trip she was taken out ofthere right after the Dennis foster because she talked about it WAM she’s out of the White House and into other areas you know there’s a lotto be looked at that’s just overlooked by the mainstream media because I’m told I have a pretty devious mind well youknow it’s because I worked for these guys and I know how they think a chip asfar as only North is concerned don’t you told me in one of the radiointerviews ad with you that you had some recordings tape recording audio recordings of a conversation in the backof an airplane was that with Ollie north or somebody else no that was with Micah Rory and a man named Raymond buddy young that wasactually presented at our SEPA briefing in Tampa Florida to Judge Adams the thereporting was presented we have transcripts of that and we’ve actually put them into Tatum chronicles so thatwhen you say CP you’re talking about your hearing before the judge where you discuss classified information rightright during the course as we were leading up to the trial there are certain things certain filings that have to be done prior to ittrial and hearings and in April of 1986 before 1996 just before the trial the USAttorney’s Office gained information that perhaps I would attempt to discloseclassified information from my previous work so they filed a motion with the courts that required me to file a classa briefing an actual brief outlining any classified information that I would attempt to use in my defense and thenthe judge rules honor whether or not you can use it then the judge rules on he has to yet the decision that the judge has to make under the CEPA requirementsays first of all is it classified in any way second it does it involvenational security issues so the afterbeing presented with that material and it has to be done in in declarationunder oath the materials were provided to them and let me tell you something if anything I said in there was false Iwould have been charged with perjury there was never a perjury charge the the issues that were given to him wereinvestigated I was never charged with perjury or or obstruction of justice trying to say that this happened when itdidn’t you know that’s an obstruction of justice charge no charges like that ever came out that’s that’s a pretty bigissue was a judge sympathetic you think an objective you know Nancy talks about this judge being a terrible judge butlet me tell you something it’s obvious to me working in the arena that I work in he knew what was going on he made thedecisions that he made so there would be no question at the appellate court that justice was not served so actually heprobably was your friend and he’s the only reason that I can talk about it today by him saying that this information was not classified anddoesn’t have a dude to do with national security the CIA can’t come back on me national security folks can’t come backon me for talking about what I presented to that court at the time a chiplet’s go back and we’ve talked about Lee North we talked about George Bush wetalked a little bit about Clinton did Clinton do you have any direct knowledge that Clinton had was aware of the drugoperation coming into Arkansas the direct knowledge is that buddy Young wasactually a advisor to Clinton he was his chief of security and he was one onboardthe aircraft and he was sent there by Clinton to investigate the loss ofmonies additional direct knowledge comesin the fact that one of the people called by Barr was the governor ofArkansas on that SATCOM he called North he called the vice president from during on this 24th of March conversation andhe called the governor of Arkansas and talked to him so and governor of Arkansas then was William JeffersonClinton so they were talking about the enterprise about the lost monies andadditionally in in earlier years and when I was at Fort Campbell Kentucky I actually flew several missions carryingmedical coolers again with money and drugs and it been to Arkansas I don’twhere Fort Campbell got a Fort Campbell it was delivered to us by the 324th Med battalion out of the South America outof South America they were operating in the South America and in Honduras it was flown by c-130 to Fort Campbellit was marked medical supplies donor organs this particular one was marked and we were advised to give it to dr.Lassiter at Little Rock Air Force Base so we flew it to Little Rock Air Force BaseI opened the close I don’t know I don’t fly a cooler without opening it I don’t fly anything without opening it let metell you why I don’t fly coolers without opening him I was told by Colby earlier that Terry hos died simply because theyput a donor or Guler mark Dorner donor organs on his aircraft that blew up inflight so whatever I see a cooler I open and what did you find in the cooler wefound a large sum of money in three Co kilos of cocaine and one cooler and theother cooler we found all cocaine those two coolers were picked up by dr. Lassiter who actually ended up being aswe found out in later years a man named Dan Lassiter who was convicted for trafficking cocaine in Arkansas howeverhe was pardoned by the governor of Arkansas Bill Clinton and did you haveany information that Clinton had direct knowledge of that no you flew him in Arkansas was was Clinton there waitingfor it or was there limousine there or anything like that we show up when hefinally showed up he showed up in an entourage of vehicles there was a band there was a stretch limo and an unmarkedpolice car in in the coming out of the stretch limo dr. Lassiter came forwardhe had two people with him one stayed at the car and one came over he introduced the one that walked over to with to theaircraft the coolers as the governor of Arkansas and the governor of Arkansasextended his hand and that’s the first time I shook the hand of William Jefferson Clinton he let he wanted tolet me know that the people of Arkansas appreciated me bringing those donor organs oh thank you didn’t know you’dlooked into him I don’t know I looked into it together in your book yes I do yeah that’s in again the Daytonchronicles right okay chip now what about the the truthserum truth drugs at the CI use we we need to talk about that sure people can be alert for it you know I talked alittle bit about in the pot in those containers down in South America the processing that was done and and duringthe processing of cocaine there were these little green pod like things Iwould later find out working working on the International side that these littlepods came from the nightshade family they were used to produce a chemicalcalled a form of cup what’s called scopolamine but it’s a much much stronger potion than what iscommercially made this stuff’s made from the orange blossoming blossoming trumpetfrom the nightshade family and we use it we we nicknamed it it’s calledburundanga the voodoo drug we use that to drug a target we can put them underour complete power with with a properly properly induced drug they they’ll dowhatever we asked them to do and when the drug wears off they won’t remember anything that went on during the druguse quite extensively used quite extensively was quite expensively yeah you know every time I hear of aninstance to give you an example where an assassination is committed and someone comes forward in the on the politicalside now not just in a small town but on the political side when their political assassinations like Rabine I was inprison at the time but there’s no doubt in my mind that was a borough danga assassination this kid apparently shotravine went in and admitted to shooting him and then three days later said he doesn’t remember shooting him he didn’tremember ever assigning any any statement saying that that’s you seethat quite regularly really oh yeah it’s it’s actually becoming epidemic proportions we’ve used it for years inthe CIA but now it’s out in the in the general populace and in Colombia a lot of the gangs have it now have access toit and they’re using it to rob people of their bank accounts and I mean a guy will get hit with Boro danga given acoke that has bro dengue in it take a drink of it next thing he knows his bank account is empty and he’s given it tothis this one of these drug gangs and they give them instructions telling what to do he does it and then three days later he doesn’t remember they’ll doanything they’ll shoot a person they’ll shoot themselves they’ll do anything they tell you you tell them to do whatabout drugs that the CIA uses to induce heart attacks and death those are usually two-part poisonscompounds so that they’re not not connected to a poison we we can toensure that a person gets the first portion we’ve gone in and like in an embassy in a one part of the world wewould put it in a punch so that most of the people are dosed with the first partof the compound you have about three weeks before the second part of the compound has to be given to the targetand then that’s the first gets into the muscles and in the heart and it’ll showup only as a compound once the second comes in it’ll show up in the blood only as a compound but it actually induces aheart attack people actually die of a heart attack and that’s that’s why the coroner’s always report these as heartattacks because it’s it’s really a heart attack and there’s no poison that shows up it it would only be a compound in thebody the chip have we as any other particular areas you’d like to discussbefore we conclude the interview I think we’ve covered it pretty well there wasone other area I want to ask you about in conclusion then what about JupiterIsland and the New World Order plans inthe in the 1980s 1990s I was taskedunder the terrorist incident working group to a unit called the operationalsubgroups many of our meetings in 89 90 91 were held in Southeast Florida onJupiter Island in a in a briefing in a home of an affluent womanand we held our briefings there those briefings would normally follow the g7 conferences and summits and the reasonit would normally follow that is because at that time remember I said we were working as an international group notnecessarily just US intelligence officers under this international planthey were looking toward doing a master plan for the whole whole world you knoweven as a community as your community has a development plan to help develop the community into a better place thesepeople have their plans to develop the world into a better place and I wouldsit in meetings and they would come to us and say well you know we have a problem in this arena we have a veryuncooperative government say in France we need to do something there so itwould be tasked over to the operation plan section of the operational subgroups to come up with a plan on whatto do so we would go into our planning phase we’d look into look into sayFrance and decide well you know the the president in France just isn’t cooperating here you know he’s kind of aloose cannon what can we do well let’s do a little counterintelligence work in sight some riots or something like thatand that’s what that’s what we did youhad the power to do that sure well didn’t you have a situation in Central or South America where theleader of the country was not cooperating and he’s thumbed his nose basically at the CIA US government andyou said well within two weeks your brother or one of your relatives would be eliminatedis that true Daniel Ortega the president of Nicaragua we didn’t have to pose that whole war down there to get him to haveelections all we needed to do was neutralize him and we knew that all along we went we went in we told ortega you’regonna hold free elections within and you need to announce that he said well I’m not gonna do itso our emissary came back and told us he’s not gonna do it we sent him back down once it was given to the subgroupswe sent him down and told him to tell Rafael there tell him that Rafael’s gonna die in two weeks he can Rafaelshoot his second cousin okay good friend of his Beth one of his best friends and so he put thousands he put him in acompound was protected by a large contingency of troops but on the daythat we told him he would die he died you want to say how he died rocket fired in a car well no in the compound it wasrocket fire but we also had people on the ground there too so whether it wasrocket fire whether it was a bullet to the head well now it wasn’t enough left to tell unfortunately not Jupiter Islandwe’re living let me okay within two weeks Ortega announced that there would be free elections in that countrybecause he was next right are you told him that we don’t how about you gone back Jupiter Island who attended thesemeetings Jupiter Island had quite a few uh big names in those and I’ll talkabout a couple of those but I won’t go beyond that because I like talking you know I I like breathing I like eating nomatter how good my insurance is I know that there are some people you never talk about right so I won’tGeorge Bush was one who would normally attend those meetings if not personallyat least through teleconferencing an additional member that was always therewas the man who still commanded me inthese operations and who actually recruited me into black operations his name was Bill Colby who’s now deadwho’s now dead you mysterious when I walked away I was told you don’t just walk away and I believe he walked awaytoo and that’s why all right mysterious death another person who was there who oversaw over fight all of our financesnow runs the judicial oversight committee William I its Congress HenryHyde I mean Henry nine Uncle Henry Henry I US Congress from Illinois that’s the man so you think you think yougonna get judicial parody I don’t think so you know that reminds me chip butI’ve gotta have some other names I could run by you but I won’t put you on the spot okay let’s see is the gentleman isa man I’m not concerned I met him in the White House myself on one occasion not a general egg but somebody else let’s seethat was 1973 for me I had another thought that I wanted to bring up andI’ll remember it down the road it asked me earlier what I’m doing these days and let me tell you what I’m doing you knowbeing a spook by trade you can’t justwalk away you can’t just give it up and you ask me what I’m doing on your radio show what are your plans and right nowI’m working as the to County coordinator for the American Red Cross and thereason I’m working as a to party core to County coordinator in Florida for the American Red Cross is it gives me theopportunity to interface directly with probably one of the darkest organizations the United States has everseen and that’s FEMA all we know about FEMA so I’ve been able to effectively infiltrate FEMA I’m the person who dealsdirectly with them in all issues and sit in meetings with them and little did they know that they had a spook in theirbusiness they know it now I told him last week in my last meeting with them well then you have some pretty goodinformation I think don’t you I waited until I got what I needed and then I put it on the website I did a big article onthe website exposed what they have going how they effectively hope to take takeover you know the big thing with FEMA is if the United States ever goes in tomartial law which can be put in place any to anytime now because of plansrecent filings the national security executive orders right since he’s declared a nationalstate of emergency already all all he has to do is have him have a nuclear biological or chemical threat active andhe can declare martial law that’s going to be pretty easy if he pushes Saddam into into blowing up a biological or ifhe shows the United States that there are people here factions here trying to do that like they just tried to do withHarris he can then effectively declare martial law if he does that though the people who really take over the countryand run things as FEMA so you have to make sure and I don’t know that James E Witt the current head of FEMA is one who whogoes along with this plan he just you know in sitting in our briefings and everything he’s just not one that’sgoing to do it so Oh didn’t they replace him or not they replace you noon so quietly lastfall they opened some offices in Washington at FEMA headquarters and brought their region six administrator aman named Raymond buddy young oh we mentioned him earlier the securityofficer Ernie chief that’s right is taking over FEMA well we’ll see what happens in thefuture of course we know FEMA is the Federal Emergency Management Agency and they have they take precedent over alllaw enforcement federal and local in the event of a nation and military in the event of a national emergency what awhat a very clever plan devised by that was originally set up by Bush wasn’t ityeah it actually came from years ago and if folks would ever ever want to go tothe website and read that article it’s available there it’s called FEMA the dark underbelly what’s your website it’sif they’ll go to ww2 net and then justclick on the black ops at the bottom of the page they’ll go right to the website what about prison camps you hadinformation about prison camps when we would fly cross-country and black ops inspecial ops we would normally ro in at different areas Nellis Air Force Basewas one a lot a lot of military bases where they have large encampment areas that are built we would ro in we’d stayin those a camping areas high-security encampment areas no cargo inside they aren’t built for cargo they aren’tto store things they’re built for people what what they intend on doing with that I don’t know but they’re in place howmany prison camps would you say you know I know of five or six that I saw I alsoknow that the United States Bureau of Prisons is in the process of acquiring land across the US and in ColemanFlorida they just acquired twelve hundred acres for a present and they don’t need near that firm there that’s abig area well they already have a prison in federal prison in Colma Florida yeah that’s correct there’s a politicalprisoner there named Michael O’Connor Souter who I’m in contact with regularly right XCX agency also by the way andwell you know in Texas there are eight prisons that have been built in recentyears they are staffed but there’s no inmates there is that the case in the prison camp that you were in yeah theywere staffed just skeleton crew security but no inmates what job be careful rightaround a corner it looks like I don’t prefer the word inmates I prefer the name prisoners or convicts if you’re aconvicted your convict if you’re not convicted your prisoner is there anything else you want to mention aboutFEMA I think that’s about it it’s probably one of the darkest agenciesthat we have really its power is on they have unbridled power to do anything youknow it takes Congress right out of the act all clinton has to do or all the president whoever it may be has to do isfrom time to time report to congress that means that means you can send a three by five card to them say hey guysthings are fine and dandy come on back to work someday but not today what about Rothschild rockefeller youhave any connections there to CIA and not the blues yeah I keep forgettingabout the Mike how about rockefeller rothschild Zinn that bunch do you have anything you would tie them into the CIA operationcovert operation CIA but in black ops and you know when we talk about the g7 meetings setting things in place that you knowthese power the powerful powerful families always have input to the politicians that they’ve placed in inpower and so in in that arena it’s very easily for them to get their own desirestaken care of I got a number of occasions we’ve done work you talking about Jupiter Island now yesdo they have representatives there do you know I know you know about the Bilderbergers Council of ForeignRelations trilateral commission where the representatives of those organizations they’re you know when youtalk about the Bilderbergers and g7 you’re really talking about the samegroup of people because the g7 are the politicians representing all these group of people and you know some of these toppoliticians bring in their desires and this is what we want to do and you knowRothschild wants this done before he died and it was done and then RupertMurdoch put up about the word to 600 of his various news outlets and said underno circumstances mention homicide either natural causes or suicide and of coursethey came out with he hung himself and then the French police came along and said wait a minute it was murder he wasmurdered you remember that more control of the media folks how many people haveyou hung a wet towel on the towel rack and it fell out of the wall exactly kindof tough that’s right chip there’s a couple other areas I thought about then they just come backto my memory now because we’ve been skipping around now at the end youmentioned on my radio show how you dealt but you mentioned henry hyde earlier howyou dealt with some of your assignments financially you want to explore into that you had an attorney in northern newyork and you can walk into certain banks and on your signature get $250,000 that any difficulty oh and in the earlieryears with the CIA all of us understand i think a lot of us have seen the movie air America how the CIA would set up forpride they’re called proprietary companies we learned early from from those efforts that we could do that inthe blackops arena also working for this operation subgroups we would set up what’s called proprietary companies wehave trusted attorneys across the nation and around the world that will set up these proprietary corporations as aneveryday business so that we can work an intelligence operation out of things you may be sitting in the Xerox Corporationand it’s not really that’s it however I will say the Wilson family was heavilyinvolved with us in in the upstate New York area and that’s the Xerox family and seeing to funding we would set upbusinesses to see see that uses covers so that we could provide operations inupstate New York we did it because we were working that border area in Canada bringing weapons and personnel acrossthe border covertly into the end of the Indian Reservation there we as theIndian reservations on occasion because it’s a federally protected area but normally I just fly low level of theradar it’s as an on radar environment practically so I just bring personneland equipment across as needed you know both ways I take people out of the country and bring people into the country what they did with those peopleI don’t know but they some of them were pretty tough well you know their identity to rate so you talking aboutforeign bringing foreigners in right from other countries of course from Europe etc where they were secretlybringing them in where their meetings in Washington sometimes we were bringing in some pretty famous criminals to meetwith people to mafia from overseas fromoverseas people that we were thought we thought were gone for years and years that we’d bring in for meetings they’rejust in sanctuary somewhere let’s go back tothe did I stated properly when I say on your signature you could pick up $250,000 cash on my signature $250,000it was set up by an attorney out of Rochester New York who was company manis he alive today the attorney and Rochester NER no he died heart attackhad that bunch I will say though that he was ill even even when he was working with us but I had a 250 thousand dollarline of credit I could walk in and the reason we had that is these missions you know they’re not cheap you have to hireyour assets in and we I would have to pay men from 25,000 to 50,000 dollars permission to work for us and that’s howit was done it was done with cash you know we don’t know paper trail where’s your checking account out here’s here’syour at the end of each month they didn’t get a what’s it called a pay stub showing them they’re withholding andeverything no yeah no IRS problem at least that way that’s what I love aboutthe median you know they you read about black operations the media always wants to say well I want to see your pay stubfrom that well these guys are just about brainless I don’t know any other way to say itso and I was speaking of Henry Hyde we talked about him earlier he was the onethat kept track of your $250,000 withdrawals well he set up the account and got the line of credit for us and hecould do that because he was heavily involved in the banking industry where the guarantees for that money came fromI don’t know but I know that the they always had to have a participatingbanker in the bank that we used this particular banker was one of the vice presidents of commercial lending so chipbut let’s let’s go back now and you wereasked to coordinate an operation against the fellow American at one point andthat’s when you according to your previous interviews with me on radio decided you had enough tell us about themeeting that you attended where you announce that you know Ted this was simply the final straw I had been askedon numerous occasions to participate in operations against American citizens from the time I joined the operation subgroups in 86 they targeted US citizens they targeted foreign citizens and inthe intelligence community fair game for us our targets what we thought of ascriminals intelligence officers and politicians around the world that we target to influence outcomes of certainthings but when they started targeting US citizens you know having been a target at one time myself in Vietnam Iwas a target your little sensitive then I’m very sensitive when it came to that and I told I told not to mention whenthey targeted Nancy that’s right that was it I’ll take that that that’s itright good for you I was asking in 92 tosee to it that Ross Perot was neutralized and when I say neutralized it means that we can intimidate him wecould coerce him which is a little stronger it’s more strong-arm tactics or we could terminate him and the men whoactually gave the order to do that was George Bush the President and this was in a meeting you attended it was inJupiter Island he what he wanted Ross Perot neutralized I went I went to a friend who’s a federal officer I walkedout that day I dropped a tape on the table it had been my insurance policy and I so that they could see what I hadI let them know this is what I have if I die it’ll come forward now this is ayou’re in a meeting that you said I’ve had it this is enough put the tape down hey guys I’m leavingyou left do you think that they reviewed the tape immediately that imagine theyhad a stampede right behind you with a pin hand I talked to Cole first VCRmachine I talked to Bill after that he was in the meeting it he said that they just looked at each other stunned at first they justcouldn’t believe it because bill bill told me on the spot he’s a chip you can’t walk away from black operations and that’s when I put it down and asmile came across his face because he’s the one that told me to do it all thosemeetings what I was doing you know he ride I’d sit there with a briefcase pointing the briefcase or it was pretty obvious to him he and I were the onlyreal spooks in the meeting that you know other than some of the only two real loyal Americans and weren’t you yeahothers were Mossad agents and so forth but they’re protected by this too most of the most of the guys in the OS G’sever think when I say that there’s eight different officers they’re not necessarily us officer what are they well the guy their countries representedthere of the Mossad British and British intelligence those three entities arecompiled the eight men that that protects right well the women used the Mossad British and American the MossadBritish and American but didn’t you have other countries represented we had Danish intelligence we had Turkishintelligence yeah but that was sometimes Australians were you know had input in but that was about itwell she had australians because they could shoot over to China pretty quick I have Vince I have good information thatwe were the CIA was responsible for let’s say eliminating one of theAustralian forms of government and bringing in their own people do you remember that yeah you know it’s I havesome other contacts of my own that have told me that before and by the way I nolonger receive Christmas cards from that fellow anymore since I went public myChristmas card list has dropped drastically it went from like that downto about like that when you when you style the car stack the cards one on one but I don’t worry about that neither doyou know because we know we’re doing right thing a chip there’s some other questions I wanted to ask youOh chip hey wait a minute how do I know you’re telling me thetruth because you like me do you knowchip what I’m telling you the answer I want to that is I know you can that’swhy I asked tell me tell them I’m telling the truth because I have adocumented I don’t have you don’t have to take my word for it hmm it’s it’s documented it’s not only documented inthe documents here it’s also documented in federal documents oh it is more incase there’s a fellas about that there’s a federal trial that took place during that federal trial the CEPA briefingeverything everything was put in place there are transcripts to that available to the public all you have to do is do afiling Freedom of Information Act filing but you really don’t even have to do that you can walk right into the federalcourts in Tampa Florida pay your $25 to the clerk and get copies of it withouteven putting a filing in because that judge made sure that that SEPA briefing wasn’t classified JEP you’re the only Xor Eaters no you don’t have xci you’re the only CIA agent that I’ve known I’veknown a few of them through the years who can come forward and say it’s documented the CIA admits that I workfor them that’s in that document right in the document yeah no never a denial in the government now can somebody callWashington DC a certain number and say his chipped in Amman or was he employee of the CIA what will they call JoyceJean Tatum jr. just called the personnel office at Langley on the documents is mysocial security number at court in the Tampa you can get the social securitynumber you can actually get the case number from the court and use that didn’t find out I was an employee okay that’s prettycut-and-dry there’s no denying who I worked no yeah right okay but you’re the only thing that they can deny is what Ihave to say but they always deny it or they say we have no record and the CIA agents are not allowed to even identifythemselves the CIA listen let’s face it well that’s law that’s by law right yeah so if there’ssome guys because this federal judge made this ruling it’s nice and some guy goes around saying I’m a CIA agent don’tbelieve in in that right that’s right and I’ve heard of this okay before we discuss Nyx’s darkest secretbook we’ve already talked about Dayton TM chronic conditions darkest secret is operation Red Rock operation Red Rockwhich we went in detail right in the beginning there any other comments you want to make or anything else you want to discuss we’ve sent operation Red Rock out topublishers around the United States but there’s some liability problems because I name the names and these are prettypowerful guys a couple of them are still alive so it’s difficult for them to do the publishing so we’ve self-publishedbut the remarks that I get back from everyone including Hollywood is this is one of the best reads we’ve ever hadoh are you kidding what a great moving book yeah what a great movie so we do have someone who’s willing to go forwardwith a movie on operation Red Rock now but we’re going to have to fictionalize it a little bit so that there’s not thatliability are you going to have a movie of it yes oh great great fantastic andthey can get that by calling our 1-800 number 802 zero one seven eight nine twoand asked for extension five eight just tell them you want to eat Nixon’s darkest secret or operation Red Rockssame thing that’s one of the darkest secrets of Nixon’s life the fact that he ordered 13 American soldiers murderedand of course they can also order a Tatum chronicles the Statham Chronicles got me charged with treason Ted and Joein prison for two years I think it’s worth looking at if you’ve got a few people would like to order the TatumChronicles again one 800 201 seven eight nine to make copies of the documentsgive them to the media challenge anybody show me show me where they’re wrong theycan’t do it okay also folks you can purchase this video I know you’relooking at it right now but if you want some for your friends or your friends want to purchase this video call 1-800 -oh one seven eight nine – extension five eight and it’s available just talk tothe operators they take MasterCard Visa Ed personal cheques and I will also Ialso make these available through my flyer and catalog and so forth so we’ll to time I’m Jeff bet around the worldthat’s right okay listen congratulations chip so it’s always a pleasure talkingto you will have another twenty four twenty six our interview on my radio show in the future okay every time I’dtalk to this man he comes out with some new information but thanks for appearing on that thanks that on the mic and infront of the video and god bless you your great American and I’m real proud to say that I I know you and have reallyworked with you indirectly thanks let me say one last thing Marine marine recon all the way boys yes Thank You marine recon see you laterfolks